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 what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???

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Hawkeye
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PostSubject: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 18, 2014 1:55 pm

Hi I've only recently started to collect GI Joe figures, and was wondering what the very first GI Joe that came into production looked like and what his butt stamp said on it, My earliest has blonde painted hair and has stamped on his butt G.I. JOE R COPYRIGHT 1964 BY HASBRO R (THEN A SERIAL NUMBER THAT HAS BEEN RUBBED SO NOT READABLE) MADE IN USA
This GI Joe is shown in the picture with cam fatigues and stood next to my red painted head VAM he stands slightly smaller than the Action man

what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Summerkitbash2014031_zpsf5a2e13c

I have recently purchased another Vintage Joe and his butt stamp says Made in Canada, so please can someone tell me which came first, much appreciated
Ian
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Blondeactionman
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 18, 2014 3:10 pm

nice additions mate, made in Canada? one of two things (I think). Either he was sent over during action man early runs and Palitoy were short of bodies or he is a Genuine Canada Joe!. I am sure if I have this completely wrong, someone will say  cheers .

Very nice indeed Ian  cheers 
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Hawkeye
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 18, 2014 3:44 pm

Cheers Dal the Joe in the picture above is a blonde made in USA I am still waiting for the made in Canada Joe. Hopefully he shouldn't be too long I will post some pictures when he's here
Cheers Ian
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 18, 2014 3:45 pm

Terrific mate  cheers cheers 
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Joe90
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 18, 2014 4:05 pm

Earliest G.I. Joe?  Those would have smooth butts with no mention of Hasbro. Some would be heat branded or etched at the shoulder with Hasbro marks.  These were prototypes, salesman samples, and a very small initial production run.

The first mass produced G.I. Joe would be marked G.I. Joe™ patent pending  Shortly thereafter the figures were marked G.I. Joe® patent pending.

The  earliest figures also had "beefy hands", "baby feet" and an early head variation.  It was made of soft plastic...

what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? IMG_4849_zpsf79ddb86

With more intricate paint schemes -- thicker eyebrows, and paint around the rim of the eyelids.  Some are painted burnt umber around the eyes.  These are commonly called "Eyeliner G.I. Joes".  You can see the difference in the head sculpt by the shape of the hair line at the part.

what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? IMG_4847_zpsd557ebeb

I've seen many VAM collectors refer to the 1965 Hard Noggin as the earliest head sculpt, but that is incorrect.

One very interesting thing about the earliest G.I. Joes was that they had notched shoulders and neck pieces.  This only lasted for a few months before Hasbro streamlined the process and abandoned the notched limbs technique.  Notched limbs resurfaced in 1967 with the Action Man Star Program.  Now it hardly makes sense that Palitoy would return to a more complicated, therefore more costly, technique for limb production for their free figure program so I believe that these notched limbs were bought from Hasbro at reduced prices.

As far as Canadian G.I. Joes. They had "baby feet" throughout their production run.
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Hawkeye
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 18, 2014 4:22 pm

Thanks Joe90 for this. It is very helpful, so can you tell me anything about the difference in height were the Joes slightly shorter than the action man ?
Cheers Ian
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Joe90
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 18, 2014 4:39 pm

Hawkeye wrote:
Thanks Joe90 for this. It is very helpful, so can you tell me anything about the difference in height were the Joes slightly shorter than the action man ?
Cheers Ian  
To be honest, I've never noticed.  Considering that the earliest tools and body part molds for Action Man were from Canada and the USA I would have to say they were the same size.  There might be some variation once the BluePant/MuscleBodies were produced.

One thing, though, the reproductions, starting from the G.I. Joe Masterpiece Edition (1994) are all somewhat shorter than vintage figures.
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dom34
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 18, 2014 4:53 pm

Joe90, thanks for sharing your expertise here!  I was not aware of several things you mentioned.

Hawkeye, you might also enjoy taking a look at this article from the Smithsonian:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/now-you-know-the-history-of-gi-joe-and-knowing-is-half-the-battle-11506463/
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 18, 2014 4:54 pm

great info and link guys !, thanks for sharing  cheers 
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 18, 2014 5:15 pm

Great info Doug!

I got an eye liner Joe a few months ago..

what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? IMG_2591_zps2715fd24

On the look out for a slotted shoulder example now.

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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 18, 2014 5:22 pm

very nice Steve  cheers 
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dom34
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 18, 2014 5:35 pm

Hey, Somekindajoe, he looks great--excellent condition!  Congratulations!

Regarding that Smithsonian article at the link I posted above, I just read it again more carefully and realized that while it does offer some good insights, it's also full of typos.  I expected better from the Smithsonian!  But even worse, it contains a serious error of omission, by failing to mention that the new features introduced in the A.T. Joes of the 1970's actually originated with Action Man, whom they never even mentioned!  

It is a very limited and flawed article which they ought to have worked on further for greater depth and accuracy.  Still, it was interesting for me to read several of the points in the article, including comments from Don Levine, who sadly passed away just a couple of months ago.  

What resonates most deeply with me in this article is the author's suggestion that something important was lost in the 1980's when the 3.75-inch "Real American Hero" Joes and associated media limited the scope of kids' imagination by telling them *HOW* to play with the toys.  What I always have loved most about 1:6 Joe is the unlimited nature of his possibilities ... the freedom to imagine, invent, improvise ... yes, he is a fighting man, but far more than that!  He can be anybody we want him to!  Now that's an "empowering" idea!
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somekindajoe
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Jul 18, 2014 7:36 pm

dom34 wrote:
something important was lost in the 1980's when the 3.75-inch "Real American Hero" Joes and associated media limited the scope of kids' imagination by telling them *HOW* to play with the toys.  What I always have loved most about 1:6 Joe is the unlimited nature of his possibilities ... the freedom to imagine, invent, improvise ... yes, he is a fighting man, but far more than that!  He can be anybody we want him to!  Now that's an "empowering" idea!

For me Action Man 'lost' it when the likes of 'Mike Power' and 'Tom Stone' were introduced. Before that AM was much more of a blank canvas for children to invent as much or as little background for their guys as they wanted. The best toys fire a child's imagination not fill in all the blanks for them. If AM needs a name then that's for the child to think of (says he who named a VAM 'Cliff'! lol! ). All the details, or 'fluff' as it's called in wargaming is better when it's from a child's imagination not a toy manufacturer's design team.

The fact that I can still remember the dodgy names and implausible adventures my AM had when I was a kid is testimony to how well the original Action Man stimulated a child's mind.

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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeSat Jul 19, 2014 12:44 am

Steve, I remember when you first introduced him to us. He's a great figure. He's probably mid to late 1964 because he has the beefy hands but he is sporting the larger feet with defined toes. I can't remember if you told us whether or not he was a TM or a R figure.

He's also got the early head that has shrunk somewhat from the plasticizer leeching out. He has a mild case of Pinhead. There's a whole wack of unintended variations on the early head sculpt due to the leeching plasticizer: there's Gummy Heads; heads that have shrunk evenly and hardened (they look very close to Hard Noggins); and then mild, moderate, and severe Pinheads.

By the time Action Man was produced Hasbro had stabilized the plastic mix and there was no perceptible shrinking and hardening of G.I. Joe's head.
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 23, 2014 9:03 pm

Thanks for all the info guys very intresting stuff indeed, my canadian Joe has arrived so here's some pic's of my 3 joe's
Left :- no markings whatsoever
Middle:- Canadian Joe
Right :- USA Joe

what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? 20140721_170159_zps92f6cd99

Below is the back of the guys showing different butt stamps

what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? 20140721_170321_zps7359fda4

Left shows no butt stamp

what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? 20140721_170520_zps68d028f5

Middle shows Butt stamp
GI JOE REG. T.M
COPYRIGHT 1964
BY HASBRO ®
PATENT PENDING
MADE IN CANADA

what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? 20140721_170515_zpsf43986ac

Right shows Butt stamp
GI JOE ®
COPYEIGHT 1964
BY HASBRO ®
some unreadable serial number
MADE IN USA

what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? 20140721_170508_zps74306305

Note:- the USA Joe has no line that goes across the diamond on the butt and to both sides also he's slightly shorter than the other two ???
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 24, 2014 11:00 am

superb line up Ian ! great additions mate  cheers 
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 24, 2014 3:28 pm

Interesting line up.  To be honest, I never really noticed the difference in height due to the unique Canadian hip piece.  The hip piece was used by Hasbro Canada and Palitoy for their figures, but was never used by Hasbro USA.  The figure on the left uses a Palitoy hip piece while the centre figure has one from Hasbro Canada...

what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? 20140721_170321_zps7359fda4

Although your first figure looks like a Smoothie, it is just a mixture of Palitoy and Hasbro Canada parts.  True smooth butt figures would have the baby feet that you see on the Canadian figure, and the head sculpt would be an early Gummy Head, or Pinhead, not a 1965 Hard Noggin.  There are other subtle differences but I won't go into them. It also looks as though someone has added the unique thin wristed Action Man hands to the American Figure and your G.I. VAM.  It's always nice to see figures that have been brought back to life, but not when it means that newcomers pay top dollar for Chimera figures.  These are great looking PH figures, I hope that you didn't pay above the odds.
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 24, 2014 3:35 pm


Nice Joes!!!  Very Happy 

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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeThu Jul 24, 2014 5:11 pm

Great Joes!

I've often thought about building a copyright free 'Smoothie' FrankenVAM, why? Just to have one I suppose.

Strange that despite obviously obtaining a license from Hasbro US, Palitoy used the Canadian Joe hips rather than US ones. I wonder what the reasons/circumstances for that were?


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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeTue Jul 29, 2014 4:24 am

somekindajoe wrote:
Strange that despite obviously obtaining a license from Hasbro US, Palitoy used the Canadian Joe hips rather than US ones. I wonder what the reasons/circumstances for that were?
Not exactly sure why Palitoy went with the Canadian style molds but I'd hazard a guess that it may have had something to do with Canada being a Commonwealth country. Perhaps sourcing items from Canada, as opposed to the USA, had tariff breaks?
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeWed Jul 30, 2014 9:00 pm

Joe90 wrote:
Interesting line up.  To be honest, I never really noticed the difference in height due to the unique Canadian hip piece.  The hip piece was used by Hasbro Canada and Palitoy for their figures, but was never used by Hasbro USA.  The figure on the left uses a Palitoy hip piece while the centre figure has one from Hasbro Canada...

what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? 20140721_170321_zps7359fda4

Although your first figure looks like a Smoothie, it is just a mixture of Palitoy and Hasbro Canada parts.  True smooth butt figures would have the baby feet that you see on the Canadian figure, and the head sculpt would be an early Gummy Head, or Pinhead, not a 1965 Hard Noggin.  There are other subtle differences but I won't go into them.  It also looks as though someone has added the unique thin wristed Action Man hands to the American Figure and your G.I. VAM.  It's always nice to see figures that have been brought back to life, but not when it means that newcomers pay top dollar for Chimera figures.  These are great looking PH figures, I hope that you didn't pay above the odds.

Thanks for all the advice its much apreciated, regarding the unmarked or smoothie? I got this from a house clearence and the lady said this and a number of others that I purchased from her had been her sons when he was a child during the 60s and 70s so he came from a pretty reliable source and not a dealer who would maybe bodge one up he was missing his left hand and I bought a replacement from ebay but the rest is in the original state and came from a box with others and clothes from her attic that she said had been there for many years, I supose there was always a chance that her sun had swapped parts around but that's a big mistery Cheers Ian
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 01, 2014 4:43 am

Doug has already covered this very well, but this web site covers it in great depth and thought you might like to see it.

http://www.vintage3djoes.com/the-gi-joe-figure-1964-69.html
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 01, 2014 6:39 am

gibri wrote:
Doug has already covered this very well, but this web site covers it in great depth and thought you might like to see it.
Matt's site is visually excellent, and generally is correct, except that Canada G.I. Joes weren't made from "reused" American molds.  Apart from the test market production in the Northeast States in June, 1964, Canadian and American G.I. Joes began production simultaneously, and G.I. Joe was on the shelf here in 1964 -- not 1965.  The molds used by Hasbro Canada were produced specifically for Hasbro Canada, and weren't cast offs from Pawtucket.

I'll post some other sites that have good info on G.I. Joe body parts: check these sites out for information, Matt's site is a great for visual examples of info you'll find there.

HoloSuite's GI Joe Page

Joeworld Online

Beachead Tibranch

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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeFri Aug 01, 2014 7:25 am

Thanks, Doug, I appreciate the clarification.

Brian
 cheers cheers cheers 
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PostSubject: Re: what does the earliest GI Joe look like ???   what does the earliest GI Joe look like ??? Icon_minitimeSat Aug 02, 2014 8:49 pm

gibri wrote:
Doug has already covered this very well, but this web site covers it in great depth and thought you might like to see it.

http://www.vintage3djoes.com/the-gi-joe-figure-1964-69.html

Thank you gibri this the website is great i will be looking at this for future references much appreciated cheers 
Ian
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