IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT

   

Love the expression of “what the hey?” by the construction worker!

As some if you know I've been seeing doctors and having tests for 4 or 5 months. These are to rule out anything and everything else. The docs are now certain that I've been suffering from long covid for 6 months. This was annoying as up until it kicked in I was feeling the best I had felt in years. Then I started to ache in every joint and muscle. I was constantly exhausted and lethargic. I also experience strange dizzy spells.

As if this wasn't bad enough..a few of weeks ago I got covid. At first it just seemed like the flu but a thousand times worse. Then a couple of weeks ago I had real problems. My temperature and pulse rate went through the roof whilst my oxygen levels dropped massively....amongst other things I was struggling to breath.  After speaking to 111..who were very helpful...they decided that I needed an ambulance. The paramedics were fantastic.  They sorted my breathing out then did a load of tests. They were strongly suggesting that I go to hospital,  but I refused. Eventually they were happy with everything and let me stay at home. They were of the opinion that the covid on top of long covid is why it hit me so hard.

My lungs are still not working correctly.  The best way that I can describe it is....its like going for a run on a very cold day....The feeling that you get when you breath in...that's how my lungs feel all the time, because of this I struggle to sleep at night. On top of that I still ache all over, my throat is swollen and feels like its been sand blasted, I have constant headaches, dizzyspells, extreme exhaustion and I've lost my sense of taste.

I honestly don't think I would still be here if I wasn't double jabbed and boosted. And even with that I think that this will affect me for sometime to come.

But I am going to recover from this. It may take a while,  but I will recover.

So wear a mask...get the antivaxination...do whatever it takes to help protect you and those around you.

Above all else

DONT BE A DICK

I’m liking the simple construction worker kitbash LeStryge.

I am really sorry to hear your health issues R.T , you been in my thoughts quite a lot . It must be so scary having all those symptoms , I hope you continue to recover . I personally think wearing masks when you leave the house should be compulsory till they got a grip on this virus good and proper . I wish you well mate .

Thanks Chip.

I think I'm finally turning the corner.

Yes I do not think most masks help much for covid...
I know people that always wore masks but got covid anyhow...
My dad stayed indoors but still somehow got covid which took his life...

Rogue-Trooper wrote:

Thanks Chip.

I think I'm finally turning the corner.

Great to hear RT! Best wishes for a full recovery!

Rogue-Trooper wrote:

I honestly don't think I would still be here if I wasn't double jabbed and boosted. And even with that I think that this will affect me for sometime to come.

Chris, I am deeply sorry that you are suffering so terribly, but I hear this very same statement from so many people here who have almost died from Covid but still claim it was the the vaccination saved them.
Rather than the vaccine, SURELY it was FAR more likely to have been the excellent post-infection medical care they got from doctors?

My own tenants(a family of 5) have all just had Covid, ...they are NOT vaccinated by choice and it was nowhere near what you describe. Around five days of being feverish with aches and pains in the joints, then they all fully recovered and are now back at work with no after-effects. The kids of course much less than that.
Remember, NOT vaccinated. None of them.

So scientifically (if not emotionally) one must ask just how efficacious the vaccine was if :
A/ you still got the disease anyway;(remember first up it was claimed the vaccine would prevent this?)
B/it was by your own account a VERY serious case that should really have required your immediate hospitalisation; (secondly they then conceded that the vaccine would not stop infection but you would only get a much MILDER form) Yours most certainly does NOT sound "mild" at all!
and 
C/ already the manufacturers including Pfizer have now confessed that neither the initial two shots or the third booster does anything at all for the new Omicron variant.....Astrazeneca's effects lasted 3 months at best.

All that and I'm positive you would have worn a mask outdoors at all times...yes?
I think it safe to say that you did everything the health advice said would prevent (or very much lessen) the extremely nasty situation you now have to endure?
But sadly here you are.

Despite the humorous little joke in my post, there was a serious message that I think needs to be pointed out, particularly if you are putting your faith in masks to prevent infection.

The graphic background I included shows exactly the relative sizes of most commercially available masks and a virus under high magnification.
It would have been dishonest to show anything else.
Everybody here is possessed of a rational sense of reason, (and geometry) and can clearly see the relative sizes of the virus particles and the openings in the mask.
We can then draw our own conclusions.
A highly respected doctor who provided my own exemption compared it to "using a tennis net to keep out mosquitos.....but it makes people FEEL safe". (His exact words.)
In other words, it's a placebo effect. 

The virus, (or its subsequent variant, and there's already another identified) will be with us forever now. We cannot put the genie back in the bottle....ever!
Serious question: So are we all going to then wear such masks for the rest of our entire lives, even though any prophylactic effect is largely illusory?

Disclaimer: 
Re. "DON'T BE A DICK".
Chris again may I express my deep sympathy for your most serious situation and I sincerely wish you a full and speedy recovery. 
I post my own situation in contrast to yours just to show a different approach with a different result. Please note I am NOT demeaning your choices in any way.

I myself wore a mask for the first week back when they became mandatory only until I was able to obtain a medical exemption for reasons I will not bore you with here.
 For nearly two years now I have not worn any mask, and despite going about my usual day-to-day life mixing with some surely infected members of the public, and attending a few places that were alarmingly pre-designated as being "super-spreader events", and doing the shopping for and entering the home of my fully infected tenants several times maskless, I stubbornly continue to remain uninfected by Covid and in apparent good health. 
I have on the other hand at times suffered some very nasty verbal abuse and glares from mask-wearers.

Our own hospital here just down the road has an ICU ward of fully vaxxed, full mask wearing patients. (There's a new fad of wearing TWO at once breaking out here!  )
And remember, you CAN most definitely catch Covid from a fully vaxxed person.

Now I fully realise other views here may differ from my own as is their right, but surely let's all observe what's actually happening, not what we are being told is happening.

Covid killed my cousin a few weeks before Christmas and it had a darn good go at me, but you're right there seems to be no logic involved in who gets it badly and who doesnt. My wife tested positive on the same day as I did and she felt fine.

She works at a school so has to test on a regular basis. Have you/do you test regularly  ? If not I would say that it's very possible that you had it without realising. And luckily you had no symptoms.

As for the mask thing. If they say wear one...I wear one.  It's no hardship ..and to be honest I look much better with a mask on.

Rogue-Trooper wrote:

If not I would say that it's very possible that you had it without realising. And luckily you had no symptoms.

That is apparently possible Chris, and I too suspected that might be the case but Doc. says no antibodies are apparent. RATS negative. 
I certainly don't claim I'll never get it, but in two years it's had more than enough chances and I still seem to remain completely uninfected.
(Oh and I am "of the age" too!)

And the irony is that others never go out, vax every time it's offered, fully mask up, take every bit of health advice (for what it's worth) and yet still catch it? And sadly, even worse.

On a lighter note I have always suffered from damn hayfever and air-conditioning can set it off.
I reckon a sneeze from a maskless person can clear a supermarket aisle in about five seconds!  
 
But I do so hate all the hysteria.
Remember that footage of some over-emotional English female cop screaming "YOU'RE KILLING PEOPLE" at some poor old bloke who was just standing in his own tiny front yard?

Rogue-Trooper wrote:

..and to be honest I look much better with a mask on.

Hmmm... same can be said for many of us. That is the first persuasive reason I have read for continuing the mask mandates!

I may of got the wrong end of the stick , but I was under the impression you wear a mask to protect others around you , so you benefit from others who wear a mask around you also . It wont protect you from those spreading the illness by not wearing a mask , so to my mind the non wearers without medical reasons for not , are selfish .

Rogue-Trooper wrote:

Covid killed my cousin a few weeks before Christmas and it had a darn good go at me, but you're right there seems to be no logic involved in who gets it badly and who doesnt. My wife tested positive on the same day as I did and she felt fine.

She works at a school so has to test on a regular basis. Have you/do you test regularly  ? If not I would say that it's very possible that you had it without realising. And luckily you had no symptoms.

As for the mask thing. If they say wear one...I wear one.  It's no hardship ..and to be honest I look much better with a mask on.

Hey Chris,
just catching up on your news.. blimey mate that sounded horrible !

SWAMBO and I have managed to dodge the COVID bullet so far but my lads ( who are Primary school teachers) and families have both had it ( V bad cold level , loss of taste etc )

Keeping my fingers crossed for you and you get back to peak fitness ASAP

Take care Gunner.

Chip wrote:

I may of got the wrong end of the stick , but I was under the impression you wear a mask to protect others around you , so you benefit from others who wear a mask around you also . It wont protect you from those spreading the illness by not wearing a mask , so to my mind the non wearers without medical reasons for not , are selfish .

Chip, if viruses are able to pass in, then by the same means they are also able to pass back out the other way just as easily.
Simple Message that I have learned from this: Don't put your faith in the ability of any of the masks that are available to stop viruses, ....either going in or out!
I initially put this up in a humorous form as a simple health warning to everyone that despite all you are told in these times, wearing a mask does very little if anything to protect you, and the now ever burgeoning cases amongst those dedicated mask-wearers just proves the point.

But if indeed you are infected with ANYTHING contagious at all, then what the hell are you doing going out in public anyway? With or without a mask?
That's probably the "selfish" bit!

So, here's what people who REALLY know about viruses wear for protection: (and even it has been known to fail!)


Promise me we are not even going to talk about THIS idiocy......

Okay, wait a second here, because this is sort of important. Masks do protect against viruses. Viruses are transmitted by droplets and aerosols, meaning when you speak, sneeze, cough or whatever, you are spreading the virus around, a masks is there to reduce the amount of droplets and aerosols that you produce. Depending on the type of masks, that can be a lot.

So, why do Mask wearers still get infected? Simple, they get it from droplets on surfaces, that is one reason you should disinfect your hands when you go to unfamiliar places. Once its on your hands, its easy to infected, you do touch your nose and rub your eyes numerous times a day and these are the ways the virus gets inside of you.

Viruses can survive on surfaces for a long time as well, several days in some cases depending on the surface. So, wear your masks, wash your hands, keep your distance and try to avoid crowds and gatherings. Also, get vaccinated and boostered, so if you get it, you dont have the most serve of it. However, take it easy anyway, because even a "mild" infection can still wreck you.

Also, there is no "varying opinions", science is clear on how viruses work, on how they spread and who is more prone to get them. That you personally did not get it does not mean you are immune to it or that the various means to prevent the spread are stupid.

ZeroDelta wrote:

Also, there is no "varying opinions", science is clear ....

Thanks for taking the time to contribute to what I think has been a great discussion here.

Science has thankfully ALWAYS had varying opinions....or we'd still believe the Sun revolved around the Earth, know nothing of germs, or penicillin, doctors would still be promoting cigarettes, performing ice-pick lobotomies, prescribing Thalidomide and Vioxx(look up those tragic scientifically sanctioned at first disasters!), women would still be dying of puerperal fever and even more recently, that stomach ulcers were just caused by stress...
All of these (and many more) were cases of somebody having a "varying opinion" to what was being accepted as scientific "fact" at the time.

Science will change about this situation too as we learn more, just as it has and did about HIV, SARS-Cov2, Bird-Flu and Swine Flu.
It is a constantly evolving and mutable system, specially when it comes to medicine as man tries to eliminate mis-information, erroneous beliefs and fear.

The far too oft quoted "Believe the science" kind of loses a lot in light of the above.

Yes, but that is once again missing the point, because research has been done into the effectiveness of masks in reducing the risks of spreading and contracting Covid since the Pandemic began and the conclusions are pretty clear: https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2776536

Science even looked at the overall measures taken in reducing the spread and how effective they are: https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302

It is not very surprising that these and many more peer reviewed papers conclude that things like social distancing and masks reduce the spread of the virus, because we know how viruses work and spread at least since the 19th century, if not even earlier. We have a pretty solid grasp on that. Speaking of, we did already manage to sequence the genome of the current Covid variant, so we do know that the virus is part of a family of Covid that originates in Bats and Pangolins, hell we even found the same variant in Bats and Pangolins.

ZeroDelta wrote:

Science even looked at the overall measures taken in reducing the spread and how effective they are:

Yes, but it didn't REALLY did it? The effectiveness I mean.
It was hardly any serious "in depth" study was it, specially when you read their conclusions?

I quote the exact words, the bold type I add to highlight the inadequacies of this study:
Conclusions This systematic review and meta-analysis suggests that several personal protective and social measures, including handwashing, mask wearing, and physical distancing are associated with reductions in the incidence covid-19. Public health efforts to implement public health measures should consider community health and sociocultural needs, and future research is needed to better understand the effectiveness of public health measures in the context of covid-19 vaccination.

"Are associated with reductions"??? Hardly scientific! How?
Notice also there's just no qualifying or value at all. A lot? Some? A little bit? 20%? 30% ? Minimally? Not even a "worth doing"?
Of course all those things mentioned are somehow "associated with reductions",  that much is plainly obvious, BUT DO THEY ACTUALLY DO ANYTHING SIGNIFICANT???
The so-called experiment didn't investigate that at all, or put any useful figures to it either.
What was really needed was just how effective they are, but the "researchers" ( I use the term loosely) didn't go there. Just claimed to have found some vague evidence, then called it a day and suggested "future research".

They also have the gall to call their work a "SYSTEMATIC review and META-ANALYSIS" which of course any Science 101 schools student would be able to see at a glance that it plainly was nothing of the sort. Big words aimed at sounding impressive but as an actual scientific study it was nothing more than a puff piece tarted up to read scientific.

I posted 3 different papers, and you cherry-pick the one where the wording does is not clear enough for you, despite the other 2 papers also saying Mask wearing can reduce the spread of the virus. I think that this is basically a waste of time, you made your mind up about it and dont care either way.

ZeroDelta wrote:

I posted 3 different papers, and you cherry-pick the one where the wording does is not clear enough for you, despite the other 2 papers also saying Mask wearing can reduce the spread of the virus. I think that this is basically a waste of time, you made your mind up about it and dont care either way.

"CAN" not "does". 
Can is NOT a given. It's a possibility that may or just as likely may not occur, .....does is a definite.
There is a BIG difference. Can is akin to "might".
Wearing a mosquito repellant CAN prevent you catching malaria, but it's certainly not any guarantee. Mosquitos can and do slip by.


If anyone feels safer and truly believes it will save them then just do it, but don't then demand that everybody else does likewise.
Just think that they will probably need to wear the mask for the rest of their lives as new variants constantly emerge and vaccinations cannot even hope to keep abreast.
There's a newbie in France.


KEEP IN MIND, the virus's genome is 30,000 letters long, which makes the number of possible variants mind-bogglingly huge. 
Any statisticians here amongst us that can calculate that?

Yes, and there is always the possibility that you die even with you seat belt on, that doesn't mean seat belts dont make sense and do not reduce the overall amount of fatalities during car accidents.

Did you know that because of the measures taken to fight COVID, like Masks, social distancing and home office, that at least one Influenza variant and at least one Cold variant have completely gone? That is right, because of fighting the Pandemic, the regular influenza outbreaks that happen every year, did not happen, resulting in that variant going extinct basically.

Also, I dont really see a problem if Masks become a regular thing we simply wear. In Asian countries like Japan, China and the like, wearing of masks to protect yourself and others is a normal thing and is even a matter of courtesy.

As for the virus: a virus wants to spread and multiply, so it will mutate to variants that dont kill and spread faster, that is the Omicron variant and its sub variant. On the long run, the virus will become a part of daily live and will become background noise. That did happen with Influenza. Most likely we will have to get regularly vaccinated for COVID and we will see seasonal outbreaks of it. On the long run, we will also find a way to treat it as well.

I truly salute your optimism ZD! 

Great photos LeStryge!
I'm vaccinated and wear double masks when I go out since my dad passed...Now I have a friend in bad shape and my sister has covid now...

SCU_HQ wrote:

Rogue-Trooper wrote:

..and to be honest I look much better with a mask on.

Hmmm... same can be said for many of us. That is the first persuasive reason I have read for continuing the mask mandates!

See ??....I wasn't lieing